Lots of people drop their comments on my blog post
PAYPERMAILS-NEW WAY TO MAKE MONEY.
From the comments, lots of people said it is SCAM.
Apologize to all since I make that post when it was first established.
But now, since it is scam, should i delete that post?
But I think I will leave that post, so that,
people can see the comments made by PAYPERMAILS members.
Still wonder, is it true some people have got their payment???
[1:53 AM
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99
comments
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99 comments
Hello,
Paypermails is useless. They are not paying single money. as a fre member they told to collect 25000 points and then they will give us amount.. i had done the same. but there is not reply from them.
Its just a fake site..
Total time wasting site. I strongly request not to use this site..
Hello ,
I Know paypermails is a purely scam and i tried to give a try.When i reached 25000$ as a free member and request for a payment they just replied me you have wait 3 months longer.
So dont waste your time in this site
This is What they say in there terms or service so take that to the bank
(Once the member has reached payout they may request payment. Payments will be made within 30 days or a reasonable time after)
Whew.. good thing I researched about this before deciding to join paypermails.com... I'm trying to earn good money for my family...
Very little about PayperMails is in reality what is says or how it operates on its website. Gold membership allows payouts in blocks of $5000 or $10000 at a time -- I have not heard any reputable reports of timely payments either; the 50 referrals included in the upgrade are not given all at once, but meted out gradually over time. The site may be hosted in Houston, but its name server resolves to a Hong Kong company and given the very poor quality of English on the site, I am pretty confident that it is operated out of China; I live in Southeast Asia and the style of English, including the errors, is reminiscent of what I see in Chinese-speaking countries over in the Pacific Rim. Don't go by what it says on the website -- the terms and conditions basically allow them to change whatever they want, whenever they want without telling anyone. I will reserve judgement for now; I have over $100,000 in payment requests to them, no payments yet. I suspect that they payout when they feel like it, if they feel like it.
I requested payment twice and still didn't get paid. They keep asking for me to upgrade to get pay. But this might help, you get paid .05 per click to your affiliate link.
http://www.bigextracash.com/aft/9c465b39.html
Finally anyone got payment?
Only not paying even you upgraded to gold member, I tried to contact their customer support (;0)by message, they never replied at all. Not a single line like "you ***ot". So sad and so mad on all this!!!
poor english!!!
so with all this comment i believe now that it is a scam.... but i will only confirm when i see proof.
It is a scam and there are a dozen more site's just like them that are scams also.
i tried the site. requested a payoutonce my account went over 25000. My account balance dropped to 850llit is a scam i got no money
people who paid paypermails with pay pal you should open a case for your money return and so they can at least do something , i did it.
they send me a email when i request paymet
Dear Member,
Thank you for contacting http://paypermails.com Customer Support.
I apologize for the delay in responding to your e-mail.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
you are a free member now so you should wait more than 3 month
please forgive that we should pay upgrade member first
then turn free member.
next payment date we will pay upgrade member,
you can upgrade your account and get payment soon.
next payment date is coming normally it with 3 days.
or you also can get your payment as free member ,
it need a long time if some upgrade members reach the min payout and request payment
we will delay free member's payment.
you can choose!
Click this link to upgrade your account
http://paypermails.com/pages/gold.php
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for choosing http://paypermails.com!
If you have any additional questions, don't forget to contact us again at http://paypermails.com/pages/contact.php
Admin
Customer Support
http://paypermails.com
2010-10-31
advertising
Payments will be made within 30 days or a reasonable time after.
"Or a reasonable time after" was just added. When I first joined, this part was not there. I'm at 33 days and waiting for payment and now there is a new clause.
Guess will have to stur up the pot with paypal and alertpay and see what happens.
They do have a refund clause:
If our services do not exceed your expectations, we will refund your money immediately.
To receive a refund, simply email us to the Billing Department ( billing@paypermails.com ) with the title "Refund" along with your;
1. Name and Surname
2. Username
3. Payment methode ( Paypal / LibertyReserve or other )
4. Payment ID ( could be batch ID or accound ID )
5. Date
6. Other information.
We will reply you within 7 Business days and then refund will be made.
All refunds will be made within 72 hours ( for weekends in could be longer ) - no questions asked!
Also, you have to open an account with Liberty Reserve....why don't know, but I think I'll fish around and see what happens.
This is really scam ..I have reached $25,000 twice and they told to wait for more than 3 months.
Most pay-to-click sites operate more or less like pyramid schemes. Only a tiny percentage of the total participants will ever get paid anything at all -- and those are usually people who have paid into the program and have a lot of referrals. BUT -- becoming a paid member does not guarantee payment at all...some sites operate on a completely arbitrary basis -- they pay whoever they feel like paying, whenever they feel like it, whatever amount they feel like paying. Remember -- the site owners/operators will ALWAYS pay themselves FIRST. If you want to put money in a high risk high potential reward investment, better to invest in stock market derivatives such as futures, etc.
i also contacted support with paypermails and i got a totally different email they told me i would get my payment at the beginning of next month. they said they had to make sure my account was honest and that my refs aree honest
same like me... i try to talk customer service about what condition for free member to earn her money... but... until now i don't accept any replay yet.
that paypermails is big bullshit.
I have a new free account in paypermails and I haven't reached $25k yet but very soon.. I will find out myself and post here if I got payment or not..
uh oh, it's a big gosh. what kind of people are you Paypermails staff and founder. You have no heart to do all these scam things to the people who are very sincere and faithfully doing all the instructions you provided and they just receive a big lie from you people of Paypermails. How could you.. curse on you guys....
ANOTHER WAY TO SNATCH OUT MONEY FROM THOSE WHO ARE ONCE ALREADY VICTIM:
Dear Gold Member, Merry Christmas!!!
I am admin of Paypermails.com I want to notice that the members reached the min payouts but no payments received.we have received so many mails said that they have not received their payments yet,so I sent this mails to you why you have bot received your earning yet.
because you forgot pay the fee,so we delay your payments.this is new rule for Gold Member.
Your name on the payouts list,and you have upgraded your account,so we will pay you.
Now,please pay the service fee 200s soon as possible,then we will pay you that you requested.
The fee is for lifetime,you need not pay Once again .
click this link to pay the fee.
http://paypermails.com/pages/newrule.php
you also can pay the fee to our account directly.
Liberty Reserve Account ID: U5042816
PayPal Account ID: mails.payper73@gmail.com (Verified)
AlertPay To Account: paypermails@gmail.com
Credit Card: Available Through PayPal
Check: Available Through PayPal
you have request payment,after you pay the fee.
you will get the amount instantly.
Regards
Admin
2010-12-26
advertising
heyy hii friends plzzz any 1 there who hasss received the payment yett ...plzzzz dntt fakeee itt .....
Ha Ha What a joke from paypermails mr adm, why dont you take your gold member free from 25k and pay rest of money to your customers those are waiting for.
Dude don't wast time in paypermails, visit abknetwork ptc 100% paying
you can request cash-out when you reach 5$ (one time)
then normally cash out is 25$
i receive 5$ and they pay me in 1 day :)))))
i am so happy
join you now :- http://www.abkptc.tk/?r=smit
yeah, the same think was with me, also I upgraded my account then ask my payout and nothink. They even don't replay to me. So they are definitely a scam!
But try this site it really works and it is very old payable site.
http://www.movie.ws/skots2011
haha, i knew paypermails is a scam, the offer was too good to be true, hell, who would want to give free money over millions dollars to strangers? but still, i gave it a go and requested for payout when i reach 25k (approximately in 2 weeks time), and the same to globalcashptr... i'll post back here if somehow they become so generous to give that fantastic 'donations'...
btw, why don't we try geostring? i've been sourcing around for geostring but haven't found any conclusive evidence that it's a scam...
check it out at;
http://www.geostring.com/?1276098
thanks and enjoy a joyous life...
I am sooo happy I checked out this blog before I upgraded to Gold Membership. I already made $25000 over 4 months ago and still no payment. So far the only decent $$ for payper click is ABKnetwork paid to click go to: http://www.abkptc.tk/?r=lmickles
I joined and then 1 day later deleted my account because this site is oe big scam.
If you want to make money slowly then join
HolyGrailResiduals
http://www.MSPSuccess.com/HolyGrailResiduals.html
Good luck everyone :)
Is this 2ru paypermails? while don't you guys pay me to prove them, wrong? This my ID easyboy.
oh my god........so im vicitim to
I to was scammed only by Globalcash as they all look like they worked together paid $199 and was never upgraded and received an email saying that they require another $399 to carry on attempted to collect funds from PayPal and as the payment went to a personal email address and not Globalcash PayPal cant do anything to help. Hope this helps.
Paypermails is a SCAM, no doubt about it. They never pay, those payment proofs you can see on their site are obviously fake. C'mon, no serious PTC will ever pay you $100 just for watching ads! They just try to fool people to pay for upgraded membership by promising they will pay them first but this is, of course, not true. Oh, and look at their ads... only self-referenced links and clone programs ran by the same bunch of thieves. Isn't it enough to say Paypermais is a huge SCAM site made in order to fool ingenuous people and stole money from them? Please avoid it at all costs!!
http://paypermails.com/pages/payout/120pp.jpg
I would like to thank you for
sharing your thoughts and time into the stuff you post!! Thumbs up
Web Designing
i'm a member of this site and expecting to earn of how my time was wasted here. I'm still hoping guys that this is not a scam because I'm too expecting for this..
How could anyone believe such scams as getting paid thousands of dollars for clicking on ads?
Be reasonable folks, is there a free meal anywhere in the world we live in?
Use a bit of common sense, add up the odds, read all the fine print and judge things as if you are the one paying out the so called huge sums.
Even the low paying fraction of cent sites are the same, I do personally believe that the clicks that all subscribers do, will one day end up in "Click Fraud", and could be easily manipulated to show something, but the clicks are going to something else.
This is why ALL of these sites require 1 user per household as well as IP address.
Find income some other way, spend the time conserving energy instead of wearing yourselves out, and for nothing at the end.
Attention: Bigmoneycenter,Mailbiz,and Trustee PTR were also started around the same time as Paypermails. They all seem to run off the same scheme and software.
*Key note: I'm a entreprenaural Expatriate,and I know a lot about offshore operations. A company and site could be registered in China or another part of the world. Yet its owner and operator could simply be sitting in his moms basement in USA dooling on his laptop with Paypermails,and other PTR/PTC programs on auto pilot while he's eating some Nachos watching "Family Guy" The reason its like pulling teeth for you to get a reply to your requests? Think about it! How could one guy even one with no life reply to thousands of members inquiries. He doesn't have to do nothing but sit back and collect the upgrade and advertising fees members sent to his chosen payment process accounts. Then again life is all about trust. As humans we always wish to give everyone the benefit of no doubt.
Paid To programs will always be questionable because your hoping and waiting for one person usually the site owner to pay you your fortune from your efforts. This is why its hard for many people to build their referral or downline programs. Because like Cuba Gooding Jr most people want you to "Show Them The Money!"
Yet from my experience what I've found that is much more easier and honest to bring people to follow you in a program is to take the time to explain to individuals how you perceive the validity or legitimacy of a online system and why you believe it will make money for them in their lives. Oh yeah! Alittle proof along the way never hurt anybody.
A question that has been asked to me by thousands of people.
Do MLM,Direct Sales,Binary,and Matrix programs work and make people big money? "HELL YES!"
I personally know many people in many countries that have made fortunes working these programs and doing nothing but collecting. I also have made my large share of the pots over the years.
Why does it work? Because your success is built off the efforts of everyone involved. The world helps each other,instead of sitting around in your house waiting for one website or person to pay you.
I won't post links to programs here as many people do. Yet if anyone wants to know about a honest program that pays from real people. You can contact me. Ill even explain to you where the money comes from and why they will pay you.
Best Wishes,
Antonio
mmclub@caribline.com
Hi guys.. No site can give you thousand's of dollar for doing nothing... If you want to earn online.. follow the following link.. you have to read article and give it a rating.. not much but you can earn a decent amount 3$ to your efforts daily..
http://www.readbud.com/?ref=5593848
so, does this means that I am just wasting my time trying to reach their minimum payout rate for nothing?lame..I thought this site could help me earn extra income..It's such a disgrace when I already referred this to all my friends and to those people who aren't that I know of..They would put the blame on me!this is so bad..shouldn't be allowed to have this kind of sites fooling people and making them think they could earn such..
wow!just to make them famous!no wonder why they only have like 4 or 5 proof on people who got paid, maybe they just made it up..haha lame
best paying sides of ptc try it www.ptc5.weebly.com
I have clicked the minimum payout limit three time, and more than 5 months ago, where are my payments? I got alot of internet expenses here. ans contacted the customer service but all in vain. DONOT USE PAYPER MAIL.COM, I would suggest
why must pay another fee when I have already paid to upgrade to gold member account.? paypermails why not explain to people before they open an account that they must pay $ 200 for the withdrawal transaction
o my god me 2 the victim of pay per mail i worked with this site ofr 5 months but get nothing in the end.
Join this site i got payments and still getting join this 100 % genuine site
Earn upto Rs. 9,000 pm with PaisaLive.com!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi ,
I have something interesting for you - you can easily earn regular income online via PaisaLive.com!
It’s really amazing! You get paid to open & read the contents of PaisaLive mails. You also receive special discount coupons, promotions and free passes to various events in your city.
Join now and get Rs. 99 instantly, just for joining. What more, as a special bonus you get paid for inviting your friends also!
Create your PaisaLive Account & refer your friends to earn launch referral bonus on every new registration.
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PaisaLive - Get Paid to read emails
{VIKRAM AHLUWALIA}
Anonymous said...@ June 25, 2011
I have over $90,000 as a gold member but yet to receive any payout. This person(s) should not be allowed to continue online ripping off unsuspecting persons. PAYPERMAILS ADMIN STOP this it is not good!!!
Dear all friend, any person know a real site for paid mails. please inform me at my mail id. i want earn money.
GUYS you all may be wright coz even i am one among the victim....
But here is a true money giving site regester for free and earn 27$ the very same day. Visit the link
http://www.AWSurveys.com/HomeMain.cfm?RefID=salman004
BORED OF SCAMERS...???
WANA EARN REAL CASH...???
visit this link
http://www.PaisaLive.com/register.asp?3198861-4432072
it is a big scam they nvr pay so better nt waste tym here
for good earning join on following link
http://www.neobux.com/?rh=6D617975726E6568657465
LAST WEEK I REACHED 25K$ AND OFF COURSE I REQUESTED TO PAY OUT...I DONT KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN NEXT BUT I TRUST PAYPERMAILS COM. THAT THEY WILL GIVE THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY THATS WHY IM COTINUING CLICKING...
Attention: Bigmoneycenter,Mailbiz,and Trustee PTR were also started around the same time as Paypermails. They all seem to run off the same scheme and software.
*Key note: I'm a entreprenaural Expatriate,and I know a lot about offshore operations. A company and site could be registered in China or another part of the world. Yet its owner and operator could simply be sitting in his moms basement in USA dooling on his laptop with Paypermails,and other PTR/PTC programs on auto pilot while he's eating some Nachos watching "Family Guy" The reason its like pulling teeth for you to get a reply to your requests? Think about it! How could one guy even one with no life reply to thousands of members inquiries. He doesn't have to do nothing but sit back and collect the upgrade and advertising fees members sent to his chosen payment process accounts. Then again life is all about trust. As humans we always wish to give everyone the benefit of no doubt.
Paid To programs will always be questionable because your hoping and waiting for one person usually the site owner to pay you your fortune from your efforts. This is why its hard for many people to build their referral or downline programs. Because like Cuba Gooding Jr most people want you to "Show Them The Money!"
Yet from my experience what I've found that is much more easier and honest to bring people to follow you in a program is to take the time to explain to individuals how you perceive the validity or legitimacy of a online system and why you believe it will make money for them in their lives. Oh yeah! Alittle proof along the way never hurt anybody.
A question that has been asked to me by thousands of people.
Do MLM,Direct Sales,Binary,and Matrix programs work and make people big money? "HELL YES!"
I personally know many people in many countries that have made fortunes working these programs and doing nothing but collecting. I also have made my large share of the pots over the years.
Why does it work? Because your success is built off the efforts of everyone involved. The world helps each other,instead of sitting around in your house waiting for one website or person to pay you.
I won't post links to programs here as many people do. Yet if anyone wants to know about a honest program that pays from real people. You can contact me. Ill even explain to you where the money comes from and why they will pay you.
yasirzindagi@gmail.com
WOW!!!! thats all I can say......... at a time when people are soooooooo desperate to take care of their family. I have clicked on a couple of paypermails from the website I have been working on I am going to cash out tonight however my friend has been waiting for 2 months for her money.......... still no money!!!!!!! they told her it would take a little longer for her first pay out. I have sent 2 emails which have never been answered soooooooo after reading so many comments I believe it may be a scam and we all should contact pay pal etc. and report this BULLSHIT. Also take it to any attorney maybe there is a loop hole and turn the tables take these a**H**** to court and get our money or put someone behind bars for extortion???????????????? what do you all think???
paypermails.com is really a scam site!!!!!
so who want real paid sites?????
i have some sites which really pays to you.
www.neobux.com/?r=vishalnetake
www.clixsense.com/?3644121&jun12
www.buxp.org/?r=vishalnetake
www.incentria.com/index.php?ref=vishalnetake
www.PaisaLive.com/register.asp?3614429-6339631
www.clicksandcash.com/index.php?ref=vishalnetakewww.clicksia.com/index.php?ref=vishalnetake
and i have payment proofs of these sites.
Tried of al these...... try until you succeed, be sincere, assured financial security will be yours and that's FREE......click the below link, join for free..
http://www.sfi4.com/11490033/FREE
Hi guys, I am also a victim of some ptr scam site you've mention. like 2dollarclick.com site, i bought 60 refferals plus a gold membership fee with a total of $80.00 and i'm glad landed to this site. but those 80 bucks i spent was coming from my small income from other legitimate ptc site that really works and real. You can try and visit this site if you like. for almost 3 months i earned a hundred bucks, it's not big but it's real! when your earnings reach at $20.00 they will automatic send you your earnings in paypal and alertpay.
http://www.mybrowsercash.com/index.php?refid=461
Thank you for another essential article. Where else could anyone get that kind of information in such a complete way of writing? I have a presentation incoming week, and I am on the lookout for such information.
Security Equipments
WANA EARN REAL CASH ?
Join this site i got payments and still getting join this 100% genuine site.
http://www.paisalooto.in/NewMember.php?uid=1333
Wow! Thx! Glad I didnt waist much of my time and energy on this foolishness.
Well for one thing in the Upgrade page it says there are NO OTHER FEES/ TAXES TO PAY but when you requests a payout then they will send you a email saying you have to pay a SERVICE FEE to be able to collect your MONEY, but that doesn't even work, because when you are a Gold Member you are suppose to get your MONEY faster or as it says with in 14 days, but no you do not.
waw looks like paypermails is really a scam thank god i research first thnx for posting your comments.......!
is trustyptc a scam or not???????????/
pay permails scam site .plz not use and wasting time........
ESTA EN FACEBOOK! AHI PODEMOS ESCRIBIR LAS DUDAS Y ENCONTRAR A QUIENES LES HAYAN PAGADO!
i have claimed$31000 but i have not been payed there are a lot of sites like this one some ofer $2,000 per clik i will wait and see if they are for real
Hii fns payper mails site is fake site.
Join this link and earn real income with in 5 days,by paypal transaction
http://www.AWSurveys.com?R=Rajendra321
have you all tried neobux?
http://www.neobux.com/m/v/?rh=637562616E657A6F6F
best ptc ever!
online since 2008
I requested my free payment over a year ago. Since then I also requested payment 4 more times... Still nothing! I got an email recently from them saying to pay just $0.10 and they'll pay me instantly w/ no minimum payout. Anyways it started to renew my curiosity in ppm again and almost considered paying $99 to upgrade because they were having an x-mas sale. All I can say is I'm glad to read a post from someone saying they are a Gold member and that they are still waiting to be paid.
If you're a gold member, I'm sorry for your loss but it does however help anyone reading to make a better choice here.
Here's something WE can all do: We can all of us file a complaint about this site to a partner of the FBI and get them shut down once and for all!
The link I found where we can do this is right here:
http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/default.aspx
I knew!!I knew it!!
horrible ptc site, i did my gold upgrade and nothing. The paypermail's boss is the same of genuine emails ptc.
if i upgraded my account then this site is pay me?
http://csstatic.com/banners/clixsense468x60a.gif
I WAS JOINED AS A FREE MEMBER OF PAYPER MAILS, AND ALREADY REACHED FREE MEMBERS REQUEST OF PAYOUT ON AUG-2011 ONLY..BUT TILL NOW I DIDNT RECIEVE A SINGLE DOLLAR , THEY R ALWAYS ASKING ME TO UPGRADE THE ACCOUNT WITH 170USD, HOW CAN I BELIEVE..? I THINK IT IS SCAM..NOW AM TRYING TO STOP CHECKING MY ACCOUNT IN THIS WEBSITE..
RAMGOPAL AKKINEPALLY
i have bought a exciting way to to earn money by just investing 700 rupees in a company named 4ever Multi Trade Corporation. when u r investion 700 rupes within 2 weeks u will get 2 products from that company worth rupees 2000 and a offer to make a business deal. the business is that after ur joining when u r refering ur 3 friends u will get a check of rupees 500. and this will be increasing in a rapid rate upto 700000 within a month. just 3 jon k dhokate parle 500 tarpor jokhon downline er 3 jon aro 3 jon kore dhokabe tar jonyo 1000 then 2000 then 4000. its is a iso certified company so there is no way of loss. check the website of the company. www.hfuindia.com . if u want to do this then send emails on suvampheonix@gmail.com soon. dont wast time on online jobs when u can get money within a day.. join it before the company becomes saturated. ONLY IN INDIA
so with all this comment i believe now that it is a scam.... but i will only confirm when i see proof.
Mainur Rashid
CEO
NetBD-Hire Bangladeshi Freelancer.
Web: http://www.netbd.webs.com
Hello everyone, these sites do not pay for free members or during up-gradation anymore. paypermails.com, richgoptr.com etc. these are paying sites from almost last 2 year's. I can help you to get your money from these sites, just PM me: dwighthegg@yahoo.com
yes, paypermail.com, sixdollarclick.com, tendollarclick.com is not paying site.
you will be paid at
http://www.clixsense.com/?4379335
http://hits4pay.com/members/index.cgi?shivamearning
http://www.PaisaLive.com/register.asp?5122194-7813650
Paypermails verdadeiro scam, site ilegal, quando é efetuado o pagamento para adesão, o site sai do ar e o IP é bloqueado, este site é ladrão.
Hi,
Thanks everyone for speaking out, u've saved me from working ma ass out on thz scam.
Thnx!!
its not a spam.i got paid 25000$ just today after 120 days.
vaya no entiendo como puede haver gente tan ingenua, que cree en estos rateros, entiendan gente estan llenando los bolsillos de un ladron, pero alla ustedes que les gusta ser estafados.
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PAYPERMAILS IS A SCAM. But I just found a way to earn 3$ per day from your home ant it works. Just send me an email to christellelady@gmail.com
PAYPERMAIL IS A SCAM FOR SURE. But I found this easy way to earn 3$ per day and it works. You can follo this link
http://www.mazbux.com/?ref=christellelady
For any question send an email to christellelady@gmail.com
Good luck
Hi all. If you wanna REALLY earn good money, this are 2 sites who paid for REALLY:
http://www.probux.com/?r=Sokratos13
http://www.neobux.com/?r=Sokratos13
Have a nice day. :)
Hi all. If you wanna REALLY earn a good money, then go to this 2 sites - they pay for REAL:
http://www.neobux.com/?r=Sokratos13
http://www.probux.com/?r=Sokratos13
Have a nice day. :)
I too have been dunked in the shitbucket,,I hate scarms
Yes, It seems to me it is a scam. Try this website. It pays.
http://www.AWSurveys.com?R=1663042
are there any lawyers out there ,,look how many people got ripped off...surely someone can do something
Has anyone tried to do a chargeback, through paypal, at least you get your money refunded there.
thanks for this information...
IF ANYBODY FEELS THAT THEY WAS SCAMMED BY THIS WEBSITE, CONTACT THE, (US FBI WEBSITE) AND FILE A ONLINE SCAM REPORT TO BE INVESTIGATED.
Hi, I'm gold member and also pad 200$ for transaction service.
I did request of my earnings that I never get my payment.
I have contact their admin but never get reply from them.
Paypermail.com staff and founders have no heart at all!!!
Don't waste your time and money for this idiots.
Has anyone been paid in the last 3 years? I cannot believe they would still be around after all this time, if they are a scam.
I am nearly agree because I have unpaid payments too. It says free member can earn after 90 days.
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